Skip to content

Support Steem.DAO: Return Proposal

in#steemdao

Steem.DAO is set as 100% beneficiary of this post. It means that all author rewards (if any) will go to @steem.dao account at the payout time. In other words, your votes for this post is an additional support for Steem.DAO a.k.a. Steem Proposal System. Then, Steem.DAO will continuously support projects voted by the community.

But what if you are undecided which of the proposals should get Steem.DAO funding or what if you think that none of them are currently good enough?

Return Proposal

This post is also a description for my upcoming Steem.DAO proposal which is a Return Proposal. The aim of Return Proposal is to prevent proposals with little to no approval from receiving funding. Think of it like:

I think that any proposal, that has less approval than Return Proposal I vote for, shouldn’t receive funding from Steem.DAO.

YouTube video thumbnail
Bonus: New fancy promo video by @gtg

ELI5 (Explain Like I'm Five)

  • Hi, I’m @steem.dao. In the next hour I’ll have 1000 SBD to fund projects and make Steem even greater again.
  • Hi, I’m @alice. My proposal Improve steem documentation is the most voted proposal, send 20 SBD to @alice.
  • Hi, I’m @bob. My proposal Steem commercial on CNN is a second most voted proposal, send 300 SBD to @cnn.commercial.
  • Hi, I’m @a.hole. My proposal blah is the fourth most voted proposal, send 10000 SBD or what’s left to @a.hole.
  • Hi, I’m @gtg. My proposal Return Proposal is the third most voted proposal, send 1000000 SBD or what’s left back to @steem.dao.

In the next hour @steem.dao sends:

  • 20 SBD to @alice
  • 300 SBD to @cnn.commercial
  • 680 SBD back to self.

HF21 Early days

In the early days, just after the new rules of HardFork 21 are set in place, and before people get used to new features, it is important to keep potential bad actors from receiving funding from Steem.DAO. Please vote for my Return Proposal as soon as you can, and then, when the dust settles, do your own research and adjust your proposal votes accordingly.

Steem Proposal System release notes (source: GitHub)

The Steem Proposal System (SPS) is an on chain Decentralized Autonomous Organization (DAO) that allows users to submit proposals for funding and vote on which proposals should be funded. The SPS is funded by means of inflation and donations. SBD (and only SBD) can be sent to the account @steem.dao. Additionally anyone can make donations by setting the account as a comment reward beneficiary.

Warning: There is no mechanism for refund from the @steem.dao. Non SBD transfers will be rejected, but any SBD donated cannot be refunded.

The inflation budget has been changed to fund the SPS. The content rewards are being reduced from 75% of the budget to 65% to give 10% of the inflation budget to the SPS. The actual inflation schedule has not changed at all. The inflation schedule continues as planned. As of block 34 million, inflation was at 8.42% and will continue to narrow 0.01% every 250k blocks until it reaches a rate of 0.95%

One one-hundredth of the balance of the @steem.dao account will be paid out every day in one hour intervals in order of approval. It is strongly recommended that the community creates and maintains refund proposal(s) to prevent proposals with little to no approval from receiving funding.

There are three new operations for interacting with the SPS.

struct create_proposal_operation : public base_operation
{
   account_name_type creator;
   account_name_type receiver;

   time_point_sec start_date;
   time_point_sec end_date;

   asset daily_pay;

   string subject;
   string permlink;

};


struct update_proposal_votes_operation : public base_operation
{
   account_name_type voter;

   flat_set_ex< int64_t > proposal_ids;

   bool approve = false;
};


struct remove_proposal_operation : public base_operation
{
   account_name_type proposal_owner;

   flat_set_ex< int64_t > proposal_ids;
};

When a proposal is created, a post must be specified that is linked to the proposal. It will be @creator/permlink. All proposal creators should use that post to keep their proposal up to date so that stake-holders can easily review and approve the proposal. There is a 10 SBD fee that must be paid in order to create a proposal. The fee is paid in to the SPS. A proposal can, at most, receive daily_pay per day, but if the proposal is not paid for a round either from losing approval votes or the budget not being able to cover the proposals costs, the lost pay will not be made up. Proposals are not owed anything by the blockchain until they are actually paid.

Proposal IDs are generated by the blockchain and are a global unique identifier of the proposal. The ID is returned with the proposal on all SPS API calls. Because the proposal ID is generated by the blockchain, it is strongly encouraged to use the transaction status API to wait for the transaction creating the proposal to become irreversible before approving it or else the proposal ID may change and the approval will be for the wrong proposal.

The following API calls have been added to support accessing proposal information. database_api.list_proposals, database_api.find_proposals, database_api.list_proposal_votes.


If you believe I can be of value to Steem, please vote for me (gtg) as a witness on Steemit's Witnesses List or set (gtg) as a proxy that will vote for witnesses for you. Your vote does matter! You can contact me directly on steem.chat, as Gandalf

Embedded Image Steem On
·in#steemdao·by
96
Sort:
  • ew-and-patterns profile picture

    So if return proposal is the highest voted, it means none of the current proposals will be funded? How long will proposals stay active, to have enough time to gather the votes necessary? Only 7 days?

    4 votes
    • gtg profile picture

      Author of proposal defines that period, so it's up to creator. It's not like voting for posts so 7 days limit doesn't apply. It's more like voting for witnesses. It will be much easier to grasp it once it's online :-)

      $0.00
    • apshamilton profile picture

      I think there are some bugs regarding proposal voting related to the Return Proposal. See this post for details. https://steempeak.com/witness/@apshamilton/there-seem-to-be-bugs-in-sps-proposal-voting

      4 votes
      • gtg profile picture

        Can't see anything suspicious there. I myself voted for Return Proposal and @roelandp's T-R-F. That's a valid way of voting.

        $0.00
        • apshamilton profile picture

          Yes, it is a valid way of voting if you choose it. But its happening automatically to every vote for every other proposal!

          3 votes
          • gtg profile picture

            No, it's not happening automatically, you are looking at index, not value. :-)

            $0.00
      • smooth profile picture

        I think it is going to be important for large stakeholders to be able to make a partial weighted vote (via a code enhancement/future fork). Currently the only way to vote proposals up and down is with the boolean approve. But this means that when a large stakeholder changes a vote it may have unintended consequences (for example moving a refund proposal above other higher "good" proposals in addition to the one intended to be cut off), or alternately not vote. Splitting stake allows for more granularity, but splitting stake should not be needed and it is generally unintended that splitting conveys an advantage.

        8 votes
        • demotruk profile picture

          Could we vote conditionally, say up to a certain level. Eg. "I support this proposal up to the point of 25 GV voting for it"?

          Posted using Partiko Android

          $0.00
          • smooth profile picture

            As currently implemented it is only yes or no (true or false in the api). All sorts of improvement proposals are possible but I think changing the true-or-false boolean to a percentage gets us most of the way there.

            $0.00
            • ackza profile picture

              Imagine when we have proposals for our proposals,and yes we should turtle or fractalit all teh way down! this is the beginning of a great new steem, no pun intended. i just saw this proposal section on steempeak today, i am really excited. and i know so many steemians will FOMO when they see PROPOSALS? Imagine we can vote on a proposal with HALF our Mvests.... or delegate proposal power lol hehe

              $0.00
          • apshamilton profile picture

            Is Steemit going to add the ability to create SPS proposals to their front end from day one? Or will it be weeks before any non-techie can create a proposal?

            Posted using Partiko iOS

            5 votes
            • gtg profile picture

              It seems that there's still no interface provided by Steemit, but SteemPeak team has one here: https://steempeak.com/proposals

              There's also https://steemproposals.com/proposals by @dmitrydao but at this moment it is still pointing at TestNet.

              4 votes
              • jga profile picture

                2 votes
                • apshamilton profile picture

                  Thanks. This seems to be the only option to actually create a proposal at the moment.

                  3 votes
                  • jga profile picture

                    try also this one from steemconnect. Just change the parameters in the url.

                    $0.00
                    • eonwarped profile picture Replying to @jga

                      Got one for voting? I think steemconnect needs something to handle a proposal ID of 0 possibly...

                      Keychain also needs to update to latest steemjs before proposal voting can happen too, from what I've gathered. (And can you add it to your nice site when that happens :) )

                      Example call:

                      steem_keychain.requestBroadcast('eonwarped', [['update_proposal_votes', { voter: 'eonwarped', proposal_ids: [0], approve: true}]], 'Active', function(response) {
                              console.log('main js response - broadcast');
                              console.log(response);
                          });
                      
                      $0.00
                      1 vote
                      • eonwarped profile picture Replying to @jga

                        • ackza profile picture Replying to @jga

                          Wait was this 3 days ago before steempeak added the proposal button? https://steempeak.com/me/proposals Is this not fully up yet? looks great! i almost submitted a proposal for @phonedata project just need 10 SBD :)

                          $0.00
                    • luegenbaron profile picture

                      I hope Steempeak will be faster..

                      But look at this: https://steemproposals.com/

                      1 vote
                    • ash profile picture

                      In BitShares we use the same mechanics to prevent this. good idea!

                      4 votes
                      • preparedwombat profile picture

                        It means that all author rewards (if any) will go to @steem.dao account at the payout time.

                        So who has the private keys for that account?

                        2 votes
                        • gtg profile picture

                          At the time of HardFork:

                                      modify( *account_auth, [&]( account_authority_object& auth )
                                      {
                                         auth.owner.weight_threshold = 1;
                                         auth.owner.clear();
                          
                                         auth.active.weight_threshold = 1;
                                         auth.active.clear();
                          
                                         auth.posting.weight_threshold = 1;
                                         auth.posting.clear();
                                      }
                          

                          nobody will have access to steem.dao. That's where A in DAO comes from: Autonomous.

                          $0.00
                          • tarazkp profile picture

                            Does this mean that the refund goes back into the development pool for future distribution, or is it burnt?

                            $0.00
                            • gtg profile picture

                              Above code doesn't mean anything like that. Take a look at ELI5 section. What this proposal gets is sent back to Steem.DAO for future allocations. Over and over again if higher voted proposal wouldn't use all funds.

                              $0.00
                              • tarazkp profile picture Replying to @gtg

                                Ok, thanks. I have very little experience with this side of it yet, but hoping that the "learn by doing" process gets me up to speed... less than 24 hours to start the learning :)

                                $0.00
                                • smooth profile picture Replying to @tarazkp

                                  The payouts will be very, very small at first so we will have time to learn by doing. The funding rate is about 2000 SBD per day and only 1/100 of the treasury is paid out per day so total daily payouts will start at (approximately) 20 SBD, 40 SBD, 60 SBD, etc.

                                  It will be some time before they ramp up to anything significant.

                                  1 vote
                                  • tarazkp profile picture Replying to @smooth

                                    Thanks for the info, I wasn't sure how the fund fills. Have you much experience with the potential outcomes or, is this going to be an experiment in innovation for us all?

                                    $0.00
                        • tarazkp profile picture

                          @skynet.notanevilAI.promise

                          $0.00
                        • eonwarped profile picture

                          Hot sign link for voting the proposal: https://beta.steemconnect.com/sign/update-proposal-votes?proposal_ids=%5B%220%22%5D

                          Thanks @asgarth for the pointer there. Figured I share it here too.

                          3 votes
                          • soyrosa profile picture

                            How big are these proposal windows going to be - do you know?

                            Thanks for taking initiative against possible bad actors on our DAO!

                            1 vote
                            • gtg profile picture

                              You can make a proposal "Midnight party" just before the midnight, vote for it immediately, and on midnight get a payout if there's enough votes.

                              $0.00
                              • tarazkp profile picture

                                Sounds like this will be @anomadsoul at SteemFest4 :D

                                $0.00
                                • jarvie profile picture

                                  Are votes just calculated once per day?

                                  $0.00
                                  • gtg profile picture

                                    Hourly.

                                    $0.00
                                • howo profile picture

                                  a proposal window can be as large as years, On the testnet I managed to make a proposal that stopped in 2040

                                  $0.00
                                  2 votes
                                  • soyrosa profile picture

                                    And who is going to decide the length of these windows? Just curious what the 'speed' will be with which we have to vote on proposals. I'm assuming here that there will be one window, then proposals, then voting on proposals, then closing of window, then start of next window. Or will there be 'parallel'/multiple windows open at the same time instead?

                                    $0.00
                                    • smooth profile picture

                                      There is continuous voting. If a proposal loses votes (or other competing proposals gain votes) then its funding may be cut off.

                                      2 votes
                                • themanwithnoname profile picture

                                  Hi, I’m @alice. My proposal Improve steem documentation is the most voted proposal, send 20 SBD to @alice.

                                  How is "most voted" determined? Is it by number of votes or is it stake-weighted?

                                  1 vote
                                  • gtg profile picture

                                    Stake weighted, obviously. Same as with votes for witnesses.

                                    $0.00
                                    • themanwithnoname profile picture

                                      Makes sense.

                                      I think your proposal is a great idea for keeping someone from getting a bunch of funding just because no one else asked for it. Are there systems in place to keep a large account from self-voting their own proposal and getting all the funding regardless of what the rest of the community says? For instance, what if Steemit or Freedom decided to self-vote their proposal?

                                      1 vote
                                      • gtg profile picture

                                        Neither of them have majority of votes. It's up to us if we want them to do that. Voting for proposals is basically putting return proposal just below all the proposals we would like to be funded. It needs time (and engagement) to calibrate.

                                        $0.00
                                  • luegenbaron profile picture

                                    Love it! We really need that! Thanks :) Jan ape.gif

                                    1 vote
                                    • felander profile picture

                                      Ok, this clarifies a lot for me on the inner workings. Is the actual voting for proposals something very technical? Or is there a usable user interface provided?

                                      Posted using Partiko iOS

                                      1 vote
                                      • gtg profile picture

                                        Voting itself is pretty much similar to voting for witnesses. It seems that there's still no interface provided by Steemit, but SteemPeak team has one here: https://steempeak.com/proposals

                                        $0.00
                                        1 vote
                                        • preparedwombat profile picture

                                          Heh. I was just about to post a comment asking about how to vote on proposals.

                                          1 vote